I, I mean, I like what you were just saying about now you do laundry or whatever, you kind of have your, your day to like reset and I think that, um, There's, there's a lot of, I, I mean, I've seen, you've probably seen the memes or the little post where someone's like, Thank you past me, or even thank you drunk me for, you know, doing this thing, or Thank you sober me for doing this thing because it paid off for future me. And, um, I mean, that's something that I've, um, I've done a little bit of. Like in my therapeutic work, um, going to therapy and stuff like thanking past me for the decisions that she made because I learned from them or, you know, the things that I did that helped me invest in where I got to be today. And like, thinking through that, I get to do that now. Um, just because there was a way that I was before doesn't mean that or there was a way that I was yesterday or there was a way that I was before our conversation that I can't just be that person now that I want to be. Um, so I, I try to be kind to myself. I see things as being kind to myself in the future. It's like self care in a very weird way. And it's not even in like big ways that I think people think about self-care. Cuz 10 years ago you would've asked me about self-care is and I would have thought, "well, getting a massage" and, and let me not lie to you, I still get massage. Yes! But also I fill up with gas at like the halfway mark. So at no point am I ever like, "Oh crap, I only have 50 miles to empty and I'm late and I gotta be to this place." I don't do that to myself anymore. And it's just like little stuff, you know, that kind of gets you there. And I, I do think it's self care. Yeah.. And you know, even when you're tired, just kind of like doing the one thing or changing the laundry or is little stuff, because then I'm being kind to myself in the future. I know that's kind of cheesy, but, No! . I think that's, I mean, I think that's wonderful because, because I have known you a while and I think that we, um, we're both very high energy. We wanna go, go, go, go, go. Um, I think our energies are very, very Similar in a lot of ways where it's like, I wanna do all of these things in the world. I wanna go out, I wanna make not just a, a big thing for my life, but for everyone else's lives. And I think that that energy, um, for a long time contributed to an unequal balance to what self care actually is. And I think there's a lot of noise, um, on, you know, like, Oh, you need to have self care. You need to do yoga, you need to do meditation, you need to go to therapy as a reward for burning ourselves out. But I think that the conversation here, maybe, is also finding the balance in the day- to- day so that you're not burn out so that, you know, like self-care is an act. Um, I think it's an act of determination. It's an act of intention. It's not just something that you do, uh, because you've had a, a shit week. Um, so I think that, yeah, I think it's really cool that we've kind of grown up a little bit together, like that., yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly because I do think that it's rewarded and even like idolized to burnout. Like in our culture, I can think of a couple of strong women that are, you know, friends of mine and they're doing it all right. They're engaged, they're getting married, they're in PhD programs. They're like running stuff. They're on non-profit boards. They're attorneys, they're doctors. . These are great women, but they're exhausted every day, all the time! And I think a couple years ago, , maybe four or five years ago. Pre- pandemic. Mm-hmm. . I finally learned how to say no. Mm. As a full sentence. Yeah. And I didn't feel like I had to say no because I'm already booked or no, because you know, that's, I don't want to, whatever. Now I could just say "no." And I think that that is fine. And that's also being kind to myself because there's nothing worse than looking at your calendar. and being super, super booked, like when I think about yesterday and it's been that way for years and years cuz I'm just very, really friendly, you know, And I'm very interested in a lot of different things and because, you know, anyways, yesterday there were four different events that I could have gone to. You know, like there was this scuba diving thing, um, to carve pumpkins and there was this Junior League event that I probably should have been. Um, there was this, my friend was having his company fall picnic, you know, and there's all these things going on, and the old me would've said yes to everything, and I would've done an hour here and an hour there, and 30 minutes there. And every event I would've gone to, I would've been rushing late, leave early, not adding any value to the conversations and the people that are there already. And then just there, because I said yes and not even enjoying it. I remember one Thanksgiving. I think I did six houses for one Thanksgiving, like the day For the day?, the Thursday, the Thanksgiving six houses. Yes. How did you, how did you even make that happen? Oh my gosh. And they were all across the state, so it was like I started. At one, I got there at like 11. I stayed until like 1215, drove to the next one, got there at like one, and then was there for, you know, 45 minutes to an hour. By two o'clock I was ready to go. Then I had to drive. So then that one, the next one was like a late lunch. So it was like four hit that one there for an hour or so, and then you start getting into dinners. But like just you're not enjoying any of it. So yesterday when everyone was asking me to do. Um, I just said yes to one thing and I told everyone else, I'm so sorry I can't make it. And like the thing that I did choose to do was really enjoyable because I wasn't rushing. I wasn't like, Oh, I have to leave by this time. Because a lot of times, like I was always gonna be late to things forever. I've always been late to everything. and a lot of times it comes from, well, I had to leave this other event early to get to this one late. So I've made everyone mad or frustrated or, you know, in the process and then I'm not even having a good time either. Yeah. Um, I'd love to, like, I'll, I'll introduce you and let you introduce yourself. So, um, how do I do that? How do I do that? Uh, what do people normally do? Okay. . Amber, I'm, you know, we've been friends for a really long time, so I'm, I'm really glad, I'm really glad to have this time with you. And so, um, as, as we sit down with your, your chai, and I'm sitting down with my black cup coffee, uh, and water also, but, um, will you tell our friends at home also water also water Um, so will you tell our friends, uh, who you are, where, like where it is you live and what you do with your waking hours? Sure. So my name is Amber, um, and I live in metro Atlanta. I am ITP for those that know what that means. Um, and for those who don't know, what that means? Means, oh, for those that don't know what that means, there's an Interstate 285 that goes around what we consider metro Atlanta. Um, but it's multiple counties because Atlanta's ginormous and it just keeps growing. And we are full, actually, in fact, no one else needs to move here. We are at capacity. Um, but I am inside the circle of metro Atlanta, although I am not in Fulton County. Technically, I'm DeKalb County. Anyways, all the same. Um, and in my waking hours I try to sleep as much as possible, . Um, but outside of that, I try to maintain balance. So, um, I do work, um, I try to limit that to 40 hours a week maximum. Not minimum, right? We're not burning out these days. Um, and so I work, I work in automotive. I do like process improvement and automation, some fun stuff. Um, cuz I've always been curious. And then outside of that, I volunteer a lot, um, with Junior League of Atlanta, the one in the metro area, . Um, there are like six other ones, you know, within an hour of here because that's just how Metro works. Um, so I do a lot of volunteering there. I do some internal volunteering. I, I enjoy the volunteering. I like connecting with people. I actually do the new member, um, programming. So they're called provisional members. Um, and I'm an advisor for them. I've been an advisor for a couple years because I just like bringing in the new people and just kind of showing them around, you know, it's essentially like, Hey, let me open the door for you and tell you all the things about the league. Um, outside of volunteering, I scuba dive, which is a new thing. Um, it's fun, it's a little terrifying. I tried things that scared me during the pandemic and this is an extension of one of those things that scare me. Um, scared of everything. So it's really easy to find things that scare me. Um, I garden a bit. I am not great at it. I kill a lot of things cause I don't really know what they need... they don't communicate effectively. It's fine. Um, I have two doggos. One is a pandemic puppy. Um, she's about a year now. She's full energy. And I have my little old lady, Jack Russell. I've had her for 10 years, so she's lovely and a little cranky sometimes. Um, and outside of that I just like hang out with my friends. Oh, I got into Dungeons and Dragons recently, a couple months ago because I was, how have we not talked about this?! Smack about it a. Well, I was talking smack about it kind of when the Stranger Things came out most recently with the Hell Fire Club and I was like, this D&D I mean, it actually looks like a lot of fun. I bet I could do this. And then one of our friends that, most of my friends work in tech, Yay. Mostly men. And one of guys was like, Oh, I know how to be a dungeon master. Let's start one. I was like, It needs to be all new people because look, I don't know what I'm doing. We have a group of all new people, . I love that. You, like, we had a whole conversation about like pairing back and most people when I talk to them, they're like, Yeah, um, you know, I have this job and then I do this fun thing in my free time and maybe this fun thing in my free time. And like, you literally listed off like three lifetimes of stuff. Um, it's just, it's just really cute. You're like, this is just my, the stuff I do now, it's not much. I sleep a lot and then it's like how you, you're still listing things. I'm like counting up the hours. I'm like, how are you still? I mean, like I , this is like a revised list. I used to be, I more, I'm telling you, I used to. I don't know. Oh, and I'm getting my MBA, which takes up a lot of my time. That was gonna be literally the next thing. So you have a full time job. You have, you're working on your MBA, you've got things that you volunteer for that you're obviously very passionate about. You've learned scuba diving. Um, and then you've got your variety of other hobbies and friend things that you do. Um, so a very active person. I love it most days. And I do try the weird yogas and, and not weird, let me, not like kink shame, but I have done alpaca yoga, I have done aerial yoga, I've tried goat yoga. There's apparently a puppy yoga. I don't really know. I just try them. I think they're fun. Usually just once is all I'll need. Uh, I think the alpacas, I went back a second time, but then one licked my toe and I was done. Oh, god. no.. So I think that a certain amount of vulnerability that goes yoga. At the very end, you know, you like lay down, there's a pose, I don't know what it's called cuz I'm corpse pose a yogi apparently, but Sure, yeah. They put, uh, , they put carrots around us to entice the alpacas to come to us. Well they had put them very close to my feet I guess, because I woke up, Well I woke up alike, I don't know, became conscious and there was something on my foot and it was not pleasant. I mean, I guess maybe it's pleasant for some people, but not when it's in alpaca. Anyways, that was my last time there, but I do like to try the weird yogas. I think it's fun. I even occasionally go to church. I mean, it just depends on the week. It depends on the week I'm having . Well, and I think, I think it's really important to listen to yourself. That was actually gonna be one of my questions for you is, you know, with all of these things, with editing down the number of events with editing down, going to three Thanksgivings on the same day, um, how do you find, you choose these days? Uh, which one is how, you know, how do you sit there and weigh it and say, This is the thing that's gonna make me happy. Do you have kind of a, uh, a process that you go through or what, how do you figure that out these days, amber? I think, Did you ever watch the Marie Condo thing on Netflix? About what sparks joy? Yes. You ever see that? Well, I'm familiar with it. So it's supposed to be about house cleaning, which is always helpful, right? Clean houses are great. Um, but also I think it's about life. Like does this spark joy? So when I get asked to do events, and usually it's further in advance, right? Cause a lot of things you have to pay for, nothing's free anymore. You know, in your twenties there's always free food free activities. That doesn't really happen in your thirties anymore. Now it's like mad expensive to do anything, which is fine. It's just about priority anyways. So I just think about does this spark joy? And there's some things I look forward to every year. So there's certain festivals in Atlanta, I block them off on my calendar and I don't care what comes through on those days, it's not getting through, you know, to my calendar. Um, and then there's just some things that, you know, seem fun. So then I try to drag people with me. You know, if a certain movie's coming out and I wanna go see it, I will invite friends. Um, but I think that's just how I do it. I think I'm always planning ahead, um, and then I have things to look forward to, which I think brings me a lot of joy. Um, especially when you're working really hard, right? You work hard to afford the things that you wanna do and give you the lifestyle that you would like. And so when you're working that hard, sometimes you can lose focus or lose sight of like the goals that you're working towards, but when you have things planned that you're looking forward to, it's really hard to do that. You know, like every Saturday and most Fridays for me are booked and through the end of the year. So, um, I know what I'm doing every Saturday from now until January 1st. And to me, I mean, I think for a lot of people it's overwhelming, but I can always say no. Right? There's flexibility. I can always change plans, but they're all things I'm looking forward to. So, you know, every weekend it's like, like we have a D&D campaign tonight, but yesterday I went to that event, Friday night I had a game night, and then I start looking ahead to next week. And then it just so happens that those things end up in, you know, one of a few categories. Um, because the things I enjoy for scuba trips, I generally plan those out months in advance. Um, cuz they can get a little pricey. I don't know if you're aware, but scuba is an expensive hobby. Um, I didn't know I had friends that did it. I got peer pressured into it, and uh, it worked out fine. And now I do night scuba diving, which is the craziest thing. But anyways, that's how I got there. You were kidding about. That's how you weren't kidding about doing things that scare you. That's how you choose and that's is to scare you. Yeah. That's how you choose things is what sparks joy? Yes. I don't, I would never surf at night. But the scuba diving at night's fun because you're loud, underwater, and so the animals are scared of you. but snorkeling still scares me because they just think you're like on the surface of the water, you know, scared and damaged. And I think they all have sensors who they know I don't wanna be there. Yeah. That doesn't, uh, yeah, I don't particularly want alpacas licking my toes during yoga, and I don't think I want to be in someone else's, uh, feeding area at night. Um, uh, no. Not at all. . , like I love that. Like what sparks joy? I actually, there's a family that I follow on Instagram. Um, I think their handles like Hungry Family. Um, and they do, they have this little, uh, series that they do where there's four of them. It's the mom, dad, uh, a little girl who's maybe three or four. And then there's like a baby who maybe is a year. And so they'll take, they'll go to a restaurant, like a fast food place or whatever, and get like six different things. And they'll go through and they'll say, uh, "French fries or hamburger?" And then the person, the child, will like pick out one thing and then they'll move on to the next thing. If they picked a hamburger, they'd be like "chicken nuggets or hamburger?" And the kid like, so they go through each of these six things and at the end they're like, Yay, you picked out this thing. Congratulations. Literally, that's what plays in my head these days as I'm faced with events or if I'm looking at a menu at a restaurant, I feel like this family is in my head going "hamburger or chicken nuggets?". And I like, I like go through each of these things and I weigh them out and I see what like, makes the most sense for me. What sparks joy and that moment, um, because it could, because the, them celebrating at the end of each of those. It's just like, it's in burned into my head. It's like, yay, you made a decision, But I think that we should be congratulated for making decisions. Decisions are hard, tough! And the win-win here is that, you know, if you go to dinner with friends, you could share your meals. You eat a little bit of everything. You only have to be decisive, . Um, well, I I, I love that. So you did mention, um, in your, in some of your time that you intentionally plan, which brings you joy in your calendar. Uh, you do have a garden, um, and you mentioned that sometimes it's successful and sometimes you kill things and like, that's just part of gardening, I think, killing things and figuring it out. But, um, so will you tell me a little bit about how you got into gardening and what your current garden setup is, or what your most recent garden setup is? Sure. Mine is not as fancy as yours. Yours has always been beautiful, um, and expansive and, and I way that you plan out your garden. You've known me since I had the, the Home Depot buckets hanging from my porch, though. Do you remember those? Yes. Yes. I spray painted them while they were hanging up. , everyone starts somewhere. Okay. Um, so I have a friend now and he has this beautiful, like, old house. It's like a hundred plus years anyways, but he gardens, he has this full acre and all the stuff there is like mature and beautiful. So when I go to his house, I'm like, Oh, these Camillas are beautiful. Oh, this is beautiful. Everything smells so good. I'm like, "alright, I can do this." So when I bought my house in 2020, I thought I could totally do this right? Also, I was gonna cut my grass, but I gave that up after three months. Um, I mean, it gets cut. I just pay someone to do it now. Um, but the gardening I enjoy. So, um, I talk to him and I've tried to figure out what it is that I could do because he has a lot of stuff in planters, you know, like the individual planter things, multi gall, whatever. And. And I was like, Okay, I could do that. So a few things he recommended to put in those planters, so like tomatoes, um, also strawberries. He didn't recommend that, Let me not give him a bad name, but I put some strawberries in a planter. Um, my basil, um, I tried blueberries or maybe it was blackberries. I don't know. Either way, I didn't get any of whatever it was I planted. Um, so those are the things that are on my porch. I also have some flowers, like this beautiful spotted, um, bagonia, I think is what it is, but it's beautiful. So I have those on my pot or in, not on my pot, on my porch. In pots, big pots like can't move them. I also have elephant ears. They're beautiful. They live through anything. I have frost killed them. I have overwatered underwater over sun. Those are good ones. Can't kill them. Uh, , they come back. Um, and then I also have a above ground planter thing. I think it's probably like six or eight foot by six or eight foot. It's a square. I just bought it and then I pour a bunch of dirt in it, good dirt. Also some top soil. I didn't know what I was doing. I probably should have like broken up the ground or done some gravel first. I don't know. I've learned things. Um, but that one just has a bunch of dirt in it. So that's where I did all my planting of edible things. You know, just bought a bunch of different stuff. I didn't really know what I was doing. Um, some of them were little tiny plants and some were, you know, slightly bigger. So tomatoes were slightly bigger cuz I thought, you know, I really want tomatoes this summer and I don't wanna start from yea little things I planted. Okay. Again, think about the size of it as I tell you all the things I planted in it because I don't do anything halfway right. I put squash, zucchini, cucumbers, romaine lettuce and spinach in one little thing. And we're not talking about one of each, we're talking about, you know, the little eight packs that you buy with the little sproutie things in 'em. like eight to 10 of each thing. I didn't know. I had no idea. They grow, There's vines. So for those of you that don't know, squash, zucchini and cucumbers, they take over everywhere. Everywhere. I had vines everywhere. I had so much zucchini that year. I don't think I'll ever use Akin again. I mean, and like I go out there and they'd be like, Normal sized, right? Good. Mm-hmm. book, those good every day. I was checking. And so like, you don't check for a day and then you go out the next day and one's like two feet long and it's huge, you know, can't even use it. And, and then I started pulling some of those out and I'm like, I don't even know what to do with it. And the guy that you know told me about the garden, he is like, Oh, they're not as good to eat when they're that big. You probably can't do much with them. And I thought, "surely i can." So then I started looking up zucchini recipes. You can make zucchini brownies, you can make fried zucchini, you can zucchini anything, You can make noodles, you can do all kind of stuff. I'm back on the, I probably won't ever eat zucchini again train. But just saying, when you have zucchini, you just need one plant. Maybe two as a backup, not eight. Do not ever, ever buy eight zucchini plants. And then the squashes, there were tons of those as well. But all the creatures really liked squash. I don't know what happened. I don't think I ever got a squash outta the garden because every time I went out there, squirrels or deer, rabbits or whatever, they also like them. And that's fine. I mean, giving back , uh, that way. The lettuce did really, really well. Um, I really enjoyed that crop. I had several of them. Now, if you don't cut them though, they just keep growing and growing and growing. Um, so you have to like cut, take it in. Cut, take it in and not just like one piece at a time. I know some people talk about gardening, how you just go out, pick what you need, and then it's fine. We can't do that with romaine lettuce. You have to like take the whole thing or else it just, it just grows until it falls over. You know, it does not have boundaries. So cut, continue on, bring the whole head of lettuce in, use it. Don't just pick one piece off because I did that. I'd be like, Oh, I'm gonna have a blt. I'm gonna go get a piece of lettuce. Don't do that. Um, the spinach did really well too. I also think the creatures really liked that one. But let me tell you, this square thing that I had was so overgrown that like it was just kind of taking over part of the yard as well. Um, so I did not do that again. That was in 2021. This past year I didn't grow very much. Um, I got a promotion at work. I've been exhausted so it mostly planted this year, but the tomatoes did really well. And so I don't know. I'll try again. I think every year is like trial and error and I know that you do it like multiple times a year. I think you do like fall and spring. I haven't quite figured out what grows when I just go to Home Depot or Lowe's and whatever they're selling, I know it can be planted and I try to go. Yeah, I would love to plant other things. I see people with pumpkins and watermelons and I'm like, I don't even know how to get there. I don't know how to do all that yet, but it's fun. Uh, and then I did flowers in the front yard. Hmm. What fun. I think flowers are so pretty. I think that's where most people start, right? I did like Lily's and Gerber Daisy and Azals Lavender Lavender's supposed to be good luck if it's in front of your house. So right next to my mailbox, I did a flower bed there. That was my first flower bed. Um, I think that was my first attempt at planting anything in my house. And I thought, I'm gonna dig out the ground, you know, however long, big, and then kind of put some dirt in it and then plant there. But as I started digging, uh, it's Clay, Georgia, Yay. And I thought, "Oh no, what have I done?!" And so it took like every day for hours I was out there just digging into the clay. And I mean, my neighbors probably thought I was crazy because I could have just put one of those things up around poured dirt on top, you know, which is what I do now. I no longer dig into the clay, but I was like halfway done by the time I got frustrated with it, so. Mm-hmm. , I thought, well, I'm already halfway there, I'll just finish. The plants are beautiful. Oh. And some plants only live one year and some plants live many years. I had to learn that the hard way. . Yeah. It's like there's a level of effort. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot to learn that goes into gardening. Um, uh, you'd mentioned that like, um, plants don't communicate well and it's like they do communicate. You just have to know what to look for and that's hard. Um, I have, uh, a lady that I'll be interviewing for this later. She's a master garden. Her name's Talibah. She's, she's so cool. Um, uh, but I, I, uh, there was one when I first planted that, that nice garden in the front yard. I had some beans and their leaves looked funny. And, um, I took a picture and I sent it to Miss Talibah and she's like, "El, honey, you know, you need to try this or you could try this." And it was like, I didn't know what to look for. I Googled it. I'm very good at the Googling. Um, but like, you know, there's only so many re results for "spots on bean leaves." Um, you know, um, yes. Oh, I also planted those green trees that give privacy that are supposed to be like, fast growing. Well fast in garden world and fast in metro Atlanta world are two totally different things. I mean like drastically different things. So I planted them in. 2020, I think they grew like maybe this much. And so I just kept putting fertilizer on 'em and kept doing the stuff and I put the little fertilizer sticks and then the like spray fertilizer. Also, there's a limit to what amount of fertilizer is needed. Just put that out there too. Um, but one died the first year. From the roots. Like it just started turning brown, you know? And then it just, like croaked, I tried everything. So I was like, that's fine, I'll just plant another one. So I did. Planted a different one, you know, bought a new one, put it there. So now it's like the small one, you know, the two and a half foot compared to my bigger ones. And I was like, that's fine, It'll grow, it'll catch up in 10 years. No one will be able to tell, you know, right now it's a two foot difference, but 10 years, no one will care. So then that's, I planted that one. Um, had to be 2021. And I'm like, all right, this is cool. So then the next, I don't know, year, maybe two more started dying. But anyways, now I have three dead trees there and I give up. Like I'm not gonna keep replanting. I'm just not. So there's just gonna be one open spot, in my privacy fence of trees because I can't figure out what kills them. So even when you do everything right, they can still die. And I think that's like, these are hard lessons to learn and to be able to learn them in your yard, I think is fine enough. Also still frustrating because it's like you do the fertilizer, you do the things that you've been told you're supposed to do, and it still doesn't work out the way you think it's going to. And I think that's like life, you know, like think about, like, when we were in college, So I'm gonna age myself, right? I graduated 2008. Uh, you know, the world ended about that time, but I had been promised, you know, you go to a good school, which we did. We went to a good school, private school, very expensive that I paid for. I mean, it's paid for now. I no longer. You're so good. You're so good. I couldn't have done it without scholarships, so, Oh, I had scholarship. I'll tell you about what scholarships in my, but it's, uh, I mean, yeah, I, I hear you. You, you also went for something, um, uh, beautiful and like forward thinking. You were like doing like public service and I, I was doing engineering. I was like, give me, gimme money. Oh, just kidding. Yeah. Yeah. So, no, you're hard. They do, they do give more money in the engineering program, especially if you're a woman, you know, there's some scholarships available. I got Pell Grant and I used to make jokes that I thought you had to have children to get Pell Grant, because that's what I was always thought, you know, you just have to be poor enough. But, you know, but you did it! To be 36 and I'm sorry to be and uh, uh, and to have your, your school paid off and to be as successful as you are, that's definitely a marker for the work that you've put into this world. So, absolutely, great job. But all I'm gonna say is even when you do all the right things, it doesn't always work out because, you know, I was told I was first gen college, you go to college, you go to a good college, right? Has to be a, I don't know what makes a good college, but go to a good college, which I think I did. And you graduate and then you'll get a job. And that's what they tell you. And that's what we've always learned. And then I graduated 2008 and I. I'm gonna get a job and it's gonna be a good job. It was not. It was not a good job. In fact, I was waiting tables because the world decided to end and it was terrible. But then I traveled for like five years after that because I thought if I have to wait tables and not have health insurance and all those things, at least let me do it somewhere beautiful. So I "gallivanted" for a while and I came back into my career in like 2013. And so now I'm, you know, I'm doing well. I don't think I'm behind anyone. I think I'm doing just as well as anyone else because I had all that great life experience. But all I'm saying is even if you do everything right in life, it doesn't always end up in quite the way that you think it should and that carries over into your garden well, and I think that the, I think to your point, you know, we've covered a very wide variety of plants and life experiences, but, um, it's, what, what's that? Uh your mileage may vary. Um, like it, it depends on so many things. Do you have, uh, what's the condition of your soil? What, um, what are the environmental conditions around you? Do you have animals around in the ground or that are going to eat the produce? Like, there's so many things that you can't just take what someone else has done at your friend's house who has a beautiful, huge garden with the established flowers, you can't just take that and immediately replace it in your house. Uh, you have to kind of think through what are your experiences, what, uh, what is the actual condition, um, of your life, and then, um, kind of retrofit those pieces together for yourself. Yeah, and you know what I think is really cool? I think that it's always been a badge of honor to be resilient. I don't love it anymore. Right. I don't love that badge of honor. But what I'll say is as you get older and you experience more things, you are a little more resilient. Right? You've done the thing that was like crippling and devastating in your twenties and now it happens again in your thirties or your forties and you're like, Oh yeah, yeah, I know how to deal with that. Right? You get your like ice cream or your workouts or whatever it is that makes you feel good about yourself. I think that gardening is quite the same because the things that kill my plants would never kill the established plants that my friend has, right? The overwatering or the, He had a tree fall on his butterfly bush and completely like, it was like a hundred year old tree. I think it was actually a 200 year old tree. It was the oldest one in Tucker. It fell on his house. It destroyed, you know, a lot of his house, but also all his plants, which he loves. Um, and they all came back. I'm like, I just miss one watering session, and they're like, dead, dead. And like he has like this thing that just like, S smushes and kills and block sunlight and for days, weeks maybe they came back beautiful. And I'm like, man, so as your plants age, they do better apparently. And you can't buy them like that. And, and to your point, you're saying, you started this by saying, um, that, you know, you used to be proud of the title Resilient and it's kind of worn out now. But the thing about resilience isn't just what the plant looks like above ground. It's literally the root system. You wanna water plants deeply because you want their roots to reach down into the dirt to be able to collect nutrients. Um, you want, you know, like wineries, uh, I don't know if you've done a wine tasting. Um, I had the opportunity to do it a couple years ago, but I did a wine tasting where they had plants that have been, um, the same type of plant. Um, same type of great plant. And, um, one was planted in the 1800s, the same, they planted again in like the late 1800s. They planted again in the 1900s, like mid 1900s. And then they had another batch they planted in like 1980. And so I was able to taste four wines made from this plant, this plant, this plant and this plant. And each of the wines, they taste different! Aged for the, the wine is aged for the same amount of time, treated the same amount or the same way. It's the same plant, but it's, it, it's roots are reaching into different areas of the earth. So some of them, um, you know, there's a wildfire that year. Uh, and so like the taste is different than, you know, the earlier plants that didn't experience that, uh, trauma. Um, and so, so I think that that was, that's really, I think it's really cool. Um, to, to go back to your, your, your analogy here, like young plants. They don't have that experience. It's not just about doing all the right things, it's about building the root system so that you can keep going. Um, yeah, that's really cool. By the way. I'd never thought about that, but you're right. I mean, my friend, when his plants came back, he's like, Yeah, they have great root systems. I'm like, Oh, well mine don't cuz the clay is not helping them any. But I think that's a great way to think about it. And it's interesting that the fruit tasted so much different from the years. I mean, that's just like so intriguing. Yeah, I, um, the place that I went was in, uh, it was outside of San Francisco, um, Wellington Orchards and I'll, ooh, I guess drop a note. And I don't know, Wellington, if you listen to my podcast, sponsor me, um, , maybe I'll check that one out too. That one sounds amazing. But, you know, the Bay Area, I think the plants is a lot like life because, you know, they have their root system that kind of catches them when everything, when literally a tree falls on them and they can grow back, you know, they can be resilient. And I think that mirrors a lot of our life. You know, when we have a support system that can catch you when hopefully a tree doesn't fall on you, but other things, trauma, and they can bring you back to life. I feel like every, like learning opportunity, aka bad experience, that I've dealt with in my life, it was always the support system that picked me up. Whether that was my chosen family or my friends, you know, you've picked me up several times and uh, you know, I think that it's funny to me that. The world of nature and gardening can mirror like us as humans and like having a support system because it really is kind of like the roots. It's like when you meet someone you don't know what their support system looks like, you don't know what their roots look like. Like, you know, I was always one that would gallivant, right? I would just move from like this part of the country to the other part. I did like Vegas and Maine and New York and just gallivant. I didn't care because I, I didn't have a strong support system really when I was younger. I was just trying to figure it all out. So I had a tree fell on me. I would not have grown back, um, if I were a plant. But now I love Atlanta, my friends are here, my family, you know, is close enough and I have a great support system, chosen family, all of that jazz. And now if a tree fell on me, uh, in theory, I think I would grow back. You know? And I think, you know, that's not something that's visible, but I think it is really. important. You know, like we all have things that we deal with, We all have traumas, and if we have that support system, much like a plant, we can grow back and be beautiful. And usually better than, than the plant that was there before. I've had two knee surgeries. I don't know if it fixes a hundred percent, but good enough. So, Well, I mean, yeah, you go to, you go to places, you get, um, advice on how to care for a body that you didn't ask for. Um, uh, you know, you get, you get advice on, on, on things that you can do to help strengthen it. Um, you know, you get again and, and again, it's our responsibility to try each of these things, uh, to add the fertilizer, to change the watering process, to figure out, you know, to see what actually does the best in our soil to help our own plants and our own lives. Um, I remember you did your irrigation system. I don't know if I ever told you I tried to build an irrigation system. It was an epic, epic fail, but I tried to buy all these sprinklers and I know you did yours fancy with like PVC piping and stuff. I didn't get that fancy cuz I didn't have the tools to do it. None of my plants lived any longer than when I just went out there, watered than myself. Now your drip irrigation was beautiful and I think it worked really well cuz your plants are always gorgeous. Whatever you're doing, give those instructions. I... here. I'm gonna give, I'll give, I'll, I'll say it out loud. I guess I may do this a couple times. Um, for any of our friends listening who don't know, my background's in environmental engineering, so I did a lot of like water quality and like, uh, water distribution work in my undergrad. So like a lot of this, the process of adding drip irrigation just like made sense. Um, . So, so for you to your point, made sense to you. It's just math, it's just drawing out a grid and just mapping it out. And it's, uh, my point is I'm happy to help you. Um, but I'll, I'll drop the link in the show notes and also send it to you, Amber, Um, of the, the, what I used, um, because really it was just kind of like a kit and I did a little bit of math and drew a little grid and then, you know, did the hard work of digging into planting it. But, but, um, uh, you know, a lot of these things, again, it's, it's that there, there are so many. Um, there's so many resources in the world. There's so many different things that you can do and things that you can try and, um, uh, ultimately sometimes you just have to like, choose a thing and do that thing and when you know better do the next thing. Cause you saw, I mean, we talked about this from the beginning, that, um, I had the plants, uh, that I had in five gallon buckets that I hung from my porch. um, uh, , uh, you know, and, and I had, I, I, I had plants in my backyard and the lighting wasn't right and I had plants on the side yard and I didn't water them enough because I forgot. And so, so like that again, it's just the things that are in the layers of dirt under your roots that help add to um, creating a beautiful plant, but, uh, there's still things to do. I've gotta figure out what I'm gonna do for the garden this season. I think I might do a garlic again. I don't know. Ooh, Garlic's a good one. So I think whatever you choose to do and whatever level gardener people are, it's okay. You know, just try the thing. Worst case, they all die. That's okay. It happens. We still have grocery stores. We have a lot of privilege. We live in a first world country. You kill all your tomatoes, you can go buy tomatoes, right? So we are lucky in that aspect, but at the end of the day, regardless of how much actually survives, You're still a gardener. You're still trying, you're still doing the thing that makes you happy. And that's really what it's about. I mean, it would be quite nice to have food and stuff that comes from it, but I think ultimately it comes from like bringing joy and maybe working out frustrations or whatever it is that gets you to the place where you think "I should plant a garden." You know? And even though like I didn't get any blueberries or blackberries or whatever it is, I tried to plant, I still tried it. At least now the next time. I know like, maybe that's not the best way to do it. Maybe there's a different way. And I think, you know, it's true of life too. You know, if it didn't work this time, it's, it doesn't make you less of a person. It just means now you know, one more thing that you didn't know. So I, I, you know, I. I'm trying to remember the last time I had this conversation. Make sure I don't like, repeat the same things in every single interview that I do. Um, but a lot of people look at time as linear. Um, we're born and we die, and hopefully you've had some improvement along the way. Um, God, I hope so. Well, so that's a very, um, Western approach to time. Um, I think that there are more like, um, like the Native Americans believe this and I think that there might be some, um, eastern cultures that believe this as well, but that instead of time being linear with the lessons learned being linear, um, it's actually more like a cycle, more like seasons, in your gardening. And so, um, you know, life is this constant expansion of learning something and then contracting as you apply it. And I think that that's something really important to consider that. Um, just because you feel like you're learning the same lessons now, uh, that you were down here, you're learning the same lessons here. Um, That doesn't mean that you're a failure, It just means that that was just a lesson. That's just a cycle. This is just, you're, you're adding to your root system. You're adding to what you need. And so I think that's really, I love that. I think that that's, that's kind of important to consider that it doesn't, Like you said, you're learning, take that thing and apply it. Keep adding it, keep adding that fertilizer, keep changing the pH so you can get that color of hydrangia that you want. , um, uh, you know, like just because you failed, that doesn't mean that it's gone forever. It means that it is now a part of what you are learning and contributing to in this world, because not, it's not just for you, it's also for your community. Your root system is for everyone else too. Um, so I think so thank you. I was gonna say, the last thing I think I'll, I'll really add is that it's overwhelming to try to learn how to garden. Um, I thought it would be a lot easier. I thought maybe if I go volunteer at a community garden, maybe I could learn something cuz I really didn't know where to start. But I think no one knows where to start when they're starting. Um, and I'll say even if you don't have any friends or you know, people that you know, that garden that you could ask if you go to your local store, whatever store that is, Pike, Nurseries, Home Depot, Lowe's, wherever it is that you choose to buy your plants or your seeds, if you try to go that route, which sure have fun. Um, . They'll help you. Um, , I think that so often our fear is tied up in how we're gonna be received by other people. And I think it's really important to consider for as great as our fear might be, there's someone who is very, very excited to tell you about what they're doing and wants to share that information with you so badly. Um, and so I think that that's, that's some, some point of encouragement maybe for someone who's having a hard time, feeling brave, um, to go and do the thing is, uh, when you take that first step, it's not just that you are doing the thing brave, but also there's often someone on the other side of that who wants so badly to receive you. And if we can just trust the people in our communities and the people that we want to be, um, that will find those people, we'll find our people. So, yeah. And the people that are good at stuff, they're still kind. Yes! I think so. When I went to that aerial yoga class, I was so intimidated. I mean, we're talking about the silks, right? Like I was inverted upside down in the air. Oh my God. I had no idea what I was doing. So I get there and there's women that had clearly been doing this a long time, and they were practicing and they're doing all this like fancy stuff. I don't even know how they got there. No idea how they even got out. And I was so intimidated that in my mind I had told myself, "these women are gonna be mean to me because I don't know what I'm doing and I'm wasting their time." And I think in society, we're so scared to take up. And we're so scared to be new. We're so scared to fail that we just don't, It's easier. It's more comfortable for us to watch The Bachelor on Monday night than it is to try some weird class that makes us scared. And let me tell you, the women there, even though I thought they might be mean to me, because they were so good and I clearly needed a lot of help, they were so happy to help me. They were so ready to show me how to be inverted and not touching the ground and how to get out, even though I was terrified. They wanted to share their love of the thing with me. And I almost didn't even let them. I almost took that joy from them. There's a reason they're at a beginner class is cuz they wanna help beginners there. There's a reason that genuinely I mentor the new members. I want to help them. There will always be people in those spaces to help you. If you can just help yourself make one step. If you can go one step towards the thing that scares you, there will be someone that is so excited that you wanna share the interest that they love so much that they're gonna pick you up wherever you're needed. You can find those people. But essentially the doing it all doesn't happen overnight. I didn't wake up one Friday and think starting Monday, , I'm gonna do all these things. And I think that we do that to ourselves and it's really unfair, right? We say January 1st, I'm gonna be a new person. I'm gonna do this thing that I've never done before. I'm gonna start this workout regimen that's like crazy hard. I'm gonna do whatever. And I'm not saying that that's not, it can't be successful. It can totally be successful with willpower and discipline, but most of the time it's not successful because it's not organic. It's not natural. It's about making like intentional small steps towards where you wanna be. Take those intentional small steps. I wanted my garden to look like my friend that has this super, you know, mature garden that he bought at his house. My house didn't have any of that. Mine was in 1950s Reno. The yard was terrible. It needed all this love. And each day I just chose one plant or one flower bed. You know, like the world is hard. And I think having some kindness for ourselves and working slowly and organically towards the things that make us happy and bring us joy, that's the most important thing. Whether that's in life, gardening, whatever, it will get there eventually, and the time is gonna pass anyways. So you might as well do the thing that brings you joy and you cannot compare yourself to what other people are doing because you have no idea how long it took them. Right? My friend with the mature garden, his house is over a hundred years old. That garden could have been planted a hundred years ago. Why am I playing catch up with something that outlived me?! You know, like I can't have plants that look a hundred years old when I planted them two years ago. And it's unkind to myself to think otherwise. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's, I mean, that, that goes right back to, um, the conversations I've been having with my little brothers because they're going to college and they're like trying to decide what they yay! I know, right? Um, you were around when they were born, so , . Uh, but, but the conversations I have with them, they're, they're like, Oh my God, what if I make the wrong decision? What if I, what if I don't get to do all the things I wanna do? And what it boils down to every time when I talk to them and when I have common refrain in all of my conversations is "just say the next, Yes," you don't have to say yes to everything, but just in the moment, in the thing that you're thinking about, right now. Say yes to the thing that sparks joy to the thing that, uh, you feel is, is the right thing for you now. And saying yes and taking that first step of going to the, the game store or going to, um, an event on meet up or going to your first scuba class. That first step. That first, yes. Um, is, is the key. Absolutely, and I think a lot of people think that confidence is just something you're born with. Like you just either have it or you don't. But I think confidence is really struggling through stuff until you follow your decent at it like, Truly, Um, I, I don't think that anyone starts out confident about anything. If you would've told me 10 years ago I'd be working in automotive doing process improvement, I would've thought people were crazy. I mean, or having a garden or really anything that I'm currently doing, because I started out bad at everything. And the confidence that I have now is just because now I know with certain things, I'm more likely to not fail than to fail. But that likelihood could be just a 51%, you know? And like you just kind of move through it anyways, and you do things that scare you. Cause everything's a little scary. I mean, parking is scary. Driving on 285 is scary. You know, having, having new friendships, reaching out to old friendships is scary sometimes, you know? Yeah. Picking the wrong college. And you know, the thing is that. Everything's fixable. I mean, I was in a car accident when I was 17. My life goal was to join the military, wanted to be in ROTC, wanted to be, you know, military. That was my life plan. And then when I was 17, a senior in college, I had a car accident, crushed my spine. Clearly I couldn't be in the military anymore, in my life was just turned upside down. I had no idea what I was gonna do. I get to college and I think I can't even really walk. I had handicap parking. I couldn't really do anything. And I thought, I just don't think this is the path for me anymore. . And in life, you know, when bad things happen that we can't control, which to be fair, we can't control most of the things that happened to us. People could say they can, but you cannot and you can't prepare for most things that happen to you cuz you just don't really know. Mm-hmm. . And even when your dreams get ripped from you, You can pivot. There's a change that could be had, and then you can grow something beautiful. It's like cutting back your plants every year. They come back more beautiful the next time because now they have a deeper root, they have a better understanding, and you can be a little more brave as you face your new adventures. I love that. Amber, Um, , I really appreciate that we covered, we covered a whole bunch, a whole slew of concepts, um, about our lives and things that we've learned in the garden, um, uh, and the things that we've learned throughout our lives together. I think, I think really my, my last question is, um, is there anything, you obviously are involved in a ton of things, um, but the last question I like to ask is not necessarily as a platform, um, but kind of as a platform, but like, is there anything that you're involved in right now that you would like for people to know about, to get involved in, um, to be brave and take a step in doing? Sure. Um, I always love a good shout out. I think, I'm not sure when this is gonna air, so if it's not gonna air for a while, you can cut this out. But early voting starts next week. Regardless of how people feel about what they're doing, I think everyone should use the opportunity they have to vote. It is a privilege, um, that many people don't have. Um, I don't know if you know, but in certain states, if you're convicted of a felony, you no longer have the right to vote. Um, so I just wanna encourage everyone to vote regardless of the party. Um, it's just important for your voice to be heard. Everyone wants to be heard, and this is a way to do that. Um, and I also think that. I've always had friends come to me and ask how they start over. I know I mentioned that, you know, I've moved a bunch of places. I always have, you know, I'm able to continue to restart, rebuild a new support system, rebuild, you know, and do things that way. Again, tired of being resilient. Been in Atlanta for a while, But I would just say if people are trying to start somewhere, volunteering is a great place to do that. You can meet a lot of people with similar interest. Um, you can volunteer at community gardens if you wanna garden. Um, you can volunteer with shelters, you can cook food. There's anything that you enjoy. Someone else will appreciate. Um, I know that there's one that does lasagna dinners, I think it's called Lasagna Love, Something to that effect. Um, you, you make a thing of lasagna and you donate it to a family in need. Um, and so there's a lot of different opportunities to volunteer. Of course, I spend my time with Junior League. Um, but I think anywhere you can get involved, a great place to meet people with similar interests. Also a great way to give back. You know, inflation's really tough. The world is a hard place right now. People just need kind of a soft place. And if you can do that for someone else, even in small kind gestures, it makes a difference, you know? Um, And I just think that everyone should volunteer if they have that opportunity. Um, . Also, do things that scare you. Um, I got into scuba diving cuz it scared me. Everything that scares you, there's probably an entry level somewhere that you can start. I started in a pool with some equipment that was rented. Um, they did like a tri scuba class. I got to do that first. So I think anything that you want to try, there's probably some option to try it. You know, the, the board games, they do game nights at the store. You don't even have to buy anything. You just get to go play their games. And I think every activity has some version of that. You know, whether that's flagged football or I don't know, whatever people are doing anymore. Pickleball, , uh, there's a place to try it and I think that everyone should just be brave. So those are my three things. Vote, volunteer, and be brave. That's beautiful, Amber. Thank you. Um, i, I appreciate you and I, I'm proud of you and I'm like really glad for this time to, to talk. Um, is there anything else that you feel like we didn't cover that ? I think I've poured out my whole life as to where it stands right this second. I'm sure if you asked me next week I'll feel differently, but I don't know. I think at this point lots of things have been covered. Amber, it's, it's been really good talking with you today to talk with our friends and, um, we may have to do a little check in next year and see where your plants are, uh, see where your little trees are, see what your garden is up to. Um, but we look forward to having you again and, um, hope that you have a wonderful season coming up. Thank you so much. We're hoping for brussel sprouts and no more zucchini, but it was such a pleasure. I hope you have a wonderful day. I will do my best. Talk to you soon! Um, I keep a running list on my fridge of things I need to do on a dry erase board. I only, I can't do all of 'em, but just like the five things that I would like to get done just a few sooner rather than later. I mean, some things never get crossed off, you know, put away laundry. That one takes a while. , I actually, um, I actually left, uh, left, left a company that I, I helped start, um, just not gonna be, not gonna be doing that full time anymore. And, um, I was cleaning off my whiteboard and it was very difficult because the stuff had been there so long. I've had to spray it several times with that solution, uh, to get it to come off like elbow grease and like sweating Um, I don't think they realize how strong the markers can be because I agree with you. I have right now on a whiteboard at work, um, this, like, I just talked about improvement essentially. So it's, Oh, . Is that a cat trick that you got going on? ? Um, it's cough drops. There's a bag of cough drops sitting up on my desk and she just came over and just like looked at it once and just pap-pap-pap-pap! I was like trying to grab it. I don't know if you saw me. I was like trying to grab it anyway. it is what it is. That's okay. I don't think they realize how strong those markers are. Um, you can't eat those. They're not for you. I think we're not using them for the, I was gonna say we're not using them in the way that they intended. Right. It's not functioning as designed. You're not supposed to leave it there for three months. I don't think so. I think 'erase' is a very. You know, 'erase' is a difficult term for me. You know, I've got, that's my working memory there. So if it's, if it's erased, it doesn't exist anymore. Um, Right. I agree. That's so funny. . Oh my God.